In this episode, Paul Frampton talks to the prolific marketing leadership thinker and speaker, Thomas Barta. After starting life as Marketing Director in Kimberley Clark, Thomas went on to run the global leadership program at McKinsey and regularly saw the CMO’s he worked for get fired before others around the board table. As a marketer at heart, he then made the decision to commit himself to addressing the lack of leadership focus in the marketing function and to lift up marketing. Thomas’ no-bullshit style shines a light on why it is he thinks that too many marketers ignore the established frameworks for building a brand or pricing strategy and invent their own. In this chat with Paul, Thomas highlights that if your budget is cut as a CMO then you must read the signs regarding a lack of belief; likewise if you are not asked to lead a strategic growth project, there is probably a reason for that. Thomas calls on marketers to consider what their personal “value creation” zone is and to ‘lead’, rather than just ‘do’ marketing. In a similar vein to our previous episode, with Alison Sagar, Thomas also calls out the importance of marketing working closely with finance. This episode is packed with advice for anyone in a marketing role and how they can increase their influence and contribution. A must listen.