Maureen – 00:00:01:
Please, replace his intro paragraph with: . I think, if anything, the value of strategy becomes even higher in a world of generative AI. It will be accentuated and sped up because of that impact, but then also into execution. There’s only so far that generative AI, I think, can get us in terms of execution and some of the creative breakthrough. It might get better, but I believe that the true creative breakthrough will still only come with humans. So it’s a companion. It doesn’t replace, but we have to be all over it. And all of us every day, even to keep up with our kids’ homework, we’re like, what did you use for this? So it’s a lot to practice every day, for all of us.
Paul – 00:00:26:
Welcome to the Time For A Reset Marketing Podcast: Insights from Global Brand Marketers, brought to you by CvE Marketing Consultancy. I’m your host, Paul Frampton-Calero, and in each episode, I dive deep into the minds of senior marketing leaders from around the world. Join me as we explore what they want to hit reset on an ever-changing landscape and uncover strategies that drive successful brand transformation. Welcome back to another episode of Time For A Reset. I’m your host, Paul Frampton-Calero, and this afternoon, I’m delighted to be joined by Mo Kingston, who’s Global Head of Marketing Strategy for Nestlé. Mo has had an illustrious career and worked at many of the largest kind of CPGs in the world. I believe she spent 21 years at P&G and worked on some of the most iconic brands there, from Ariel to Fairy to Febreze. She then did a stint at GSK before most recently joining Nestlé to head up marketing strategy. So given this podcast is all about how marketing drives growth and transformation, I’m delighted to have Mo here because I know that a passion of hers is that same thing about how marketing genuinely does the right things in order to drive growth for a business because ultimately, that’s what marketing’s all about. And sometimes we get a little bit distracted by the creativity and the ideas and the awards, but it’s all about growth. So Mo, delighted to have you here. Welcome.
Maureen – 00:01:45:
Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here, Paul.
Paul – 00:01:47:
So I always ask the same question at the beginning of the podcast, Mo, which is, if you had a big orange button on the table that you could hit reset on, what would you change in the marketing industry? You’ve worked at many different big brands and probably seen many different models for marketing. So what would you change?
Maureen – 00:02:03:
If I had a reset button, there’s probably many things I could hit reset on in my life. But in work, it would be confusing busyness for progress. And I guess behind that is unquestionably marketing is complexified. And that can be seductive because we spend lots of time doing lots of stuff. I think that’s actually driving progress. But we are the drivers of growth. And if we’re not doing that in the company, we become a cost. And it’s an environment which can’t tolerate cost. But if we do it, we are the kings and queens. Because I’m yet to see a business model which doesn’t have growth at the core. So it’s that stark the choice. And so it’s about focus.
Paul – 00:02:44:
Nice. I love that. Interestingly, and I’m sure at some point we’ll touch on AI because it’s difficult not to these days. But I hope the promise of AI is not more marketing, but better marketing. And it sounds like that’s really the way that you’re thinking about the role that marketing plays. It does feel sometimes that a lot of it is about the output. Rather than the actual impact and the kind of bottom line outcomes that are developed. So I think we probably share the same passion there.
Maureen – 00:03:10:
Yeah, absolutely.
Paul – 00:03:11:
So your point about marketing being in danger of being a cost, I think, is a good reminder. I think we all know that it’s an investment and it should bring returns. But occasionally we do have challenges from other parts of the organization or other senior roles where they do look at it as a cost. So could you maybe just talk about how you avoid marketing? Just becoming comms and kind of output driven. How do you think about making sure that marketing is that higher driven growth kind of purpose?
Maureen – 00:03:42:
I think a lot of it is about setting clear KPIs and measuring against them and finding the KPIs that will be meaningful to the more senior leaders. The thing about KPIs though often is it’s something that you measure retrospectively. So I can tell, of course, did we drive share growth? Did we drive more sales? The key for us as marketers is to be able to identify upfront is what I’m about to do going to drive growth because obviously all of the work is spent upfront. And so it’s also then about asking simple questions, which is going to be, is this shifting how consumers think and feel about my brand? Is it meeting consumers’ needs in a different way to my competition and being able to identify what we need to do and then do that brilliantly? Because execution at the end of the day is all that consumers see.
Paul – 00:04:30:
Interesting to hear a strategist talk about execution being so important. I think at the end of the day, there’s that great quote, isn’t there? That strategy is great, but if you don’t actually do things and get things done, strategy is just a deferral thing.
Maureen – 00:04:43:
Yes. I think it’s execution each strategy for breakfast or something. I don’t know what it is, but you need both at the end of the day. Yeah.
Paul – 00:04:50:
You need both. I agree. And it’s interesting that you touched on the importance of the right KPIs. I think sometimes where marketing challenges is, it gets dragged into the short-term KPIs versus longer-term brand building. So how do you go about balancing that when you’re talking to senior stakeholders?
Maureen – 00:05:08:
So I feel that for a while, to what you just said, it was almost as if we fell asleep at the wheel and we became very focused on the short-term. And I thank a lot of people like Peter Field for really reintroducing, it’s almost like calling bullshit on it, and then reintroducing the long and the short of it, foundation and fire. And so, yeah, what we have done here at Nestlé is, and we had Les Binet here last year.
Yeah. And it was great, but we’ve used that then and we’ve introduced the language of foundation and fire. We’ve embraced and driven across our brand, you want to be aiming for about 60-40, and we’ve started to track it and we’ve got some markets to lean in and to do it and to prove the results. So it’s just, it’s getting back to the clarity is what’s making the biggest impact.
Paul – 00:05:54:
Great. And as you say, it’s so important to be able to measure the combined impact of how those things work together. And I think for a long time, the industry, either to your point, I love that phrase you use, fell asleep at the wheel, became so focused on the short term and everything moving to digital, but also probably started to silo the brand or the upper funnel and then the lower funnel. When in actual fact, nobody other than marketeers thinks like that. Consumers have never thought like that. I think, of course, we need to know where we allocate budget and what the optimal allocation is between the different parts of it. But I really like the way that you framed that. So my next question, I guess, in the same vein as maybe we fell asleep at the wheel, there’s a danger that with digital and platforms dominating so much of brands investments these days, that marketing strategy doesn’t always get the right amount of time and energy. What do you think the overall quality of marketing strategy is in the industry today? Versus maybe when Les and Peter first wrote that book?
Maureen – 00:06:56:
I think we are at an inflexion point. I think it’s exciting because just at the same point that I think we woke up into a different reality. We woke up into a world where now, frankly, we have to earn the right for consumers to spend time with us because they can skip, they can scroll straight past this. So we suddenly went into this world where actually strategy becomes even more important. And when I look at within our industry, which is food and beverage, what I’m seeing is some outstanding examples of strategy, actually an outstanding execution, as well as a lot of dross. And you’re beginning to see the two things really begin to pull apart. So yes, I’m seeing it centrality strengthened because I think it will be the difference, especially in a generative AI world, which you talked about, between those who grow and those who just look like everybody else.
Paul – 00:07:45:
Interesting. And obviously your role globally, you have to think about how do you… You create consistency of brands in different geographies with different consumer bases, which I’d imagine at times is quite a challenge. How do you go about trying to make sure the nuances of different local markets and regions are factored in, but that there is that consistency across the world?
Maureen – 00:08:07:
This is part of the story of my career, if I go back to the beginning. I was at Procter & Gamble in Newcastle upon Tyne on Always UK. And whenever they started talking about, oh, is there a regional scale behind laundry? And I was like, no way. And of course, we went there and then it scaled and it scaled and now nobody questions it. So it has been the eternal journey. And sometimes we get it wrong. Sometimes we get it right. So I think the key thing is, first of all, make the right choice for the brand. And again, at Nestlé, we’ve got globally led, globally executed brands like Nespresso, where you’ve got a lot of consistency in terms of how the consumer experiences it across the world. But then we also have big global brands which are more locally executed because, especially in the world of food, there’s quite a lot of cultural nuance. And then we have local brands where there’s little scale in trying to move above market. So you’ve got to make the choice. One thing I always say is to look for the unifiers because it is easy. Always to find the differentiators. So you’ve got to look for the unifiers because that is what will unlock the scale. But you’ve got to listen for differentiators because those are the pieces which then, if you address in the localization piece, can really unlock the extra jump. And that’s where you need to focus the local markets against. So it’s that balance across them I think that is really key. Then you’ve got to make sure that the organizational design follows your choice all the way through. So if you are moving above market, you’ve got to reward the local teams for brilliant localization through creators, etc. So that’s the other key thing we really need to make sure we do.
Paul – 00:09:41:
That’s a really great point. And I really like your point about unifiers. I think you’re right. People often talk about, overly focused on the differentiation point, but actually what are the commonalities that actually connect back that mean that there is some kind of consistency. And to that point about rewarding local teams, how do you personally engage in different ways to make people feel that in those local markets as local marketers, that they’re actually in collaboration with you as a global team. Because I think that’s always been a challenge in certain organizations do it better than others. I feel like Nestlé always had quite a good reputation for getting that ‘glocal’ kind of thing right. So I’d love to know how you personally approach that.
Maureen – 00:10:20:
So in my role here, I’m not leading a brand as I’m sitting in the center. But what I see working really well is first, you’ve got to gain trust. It’s a people business. And so you’ve got to spend the time to build the trust that the local teams know, that you understand what’s different, what’s common, and they’re willing to go with you. That’s critical. And then you’ve got to get the wins away. You’ve got to prove it works. And then I think also there’s a lot we can do then to shine the light on what is brilliant locally and to celebrate that and to put reward structures and promotion behind that. And then also, of course, to make sure then we develop career paths, which move across between the different roles. So those are some of the key things which work well.
Paul – 00:11:01:
Nice. And that fluidity, I think, is really valuable, isn’t it? When it isn’t them and us, actually, some people move from one place to another. Suddenly it becomes much more fluid.
Maureen – 00:11:10:
Exactly. No, you’re right.
Paul – 00:11:11:
I’m sure at points it’s been challenging to get that balance right. Are there any kind of instances or stories that you have around where there’s been a challenge to keep it consistent and actually you’ve had to take a slightly different approach?
Maureen – 00:11:23:
I think, again, if I look back across the years, I’ve seen us get it wrong. P&G got it spectacularly wrong, actually, in the early 1990s, because you just can’t rip up the rulebook and you can’t move too fast. So I’ve seen many examples of it. And what we see is when we look across the industry, we’re seeing a constant shift. And what we’re seeing at the moment is actually a big focus on regional scale across the industry with global consistency, but less local, or then local amplifying it. So we just continue to see where the industry moves to and then make sure that we are taking the right choices for ourselves.
Paul – 00:12:00:
Interesting, you touched on something there, Mo, which I think is quite an interesting topic. I mean, you started in brand management, right? There was a very particular playbook at P&G for how you do marketing, as I’m sure there was at Nestlé and at GSK. And to your point, the world has dramatically changed, the data that we’re collecting, the regularity of the feedback we get, the routes we’ve got to market. So how does a CPG from a strategic perspective adapt to this changing need to be a lot more agile and kind of data-driven versus what I imagine, you’ll know better than I, but I imagine there were much longer periods where you stopped and did the research work, did the MPD work, and then started to think out everything from brand management to campaign, and eventually comms hit the market. The world can’t quite work like that anymore, can it?
Maureen – 00:12:46:
Yeah,, 100%. So the first thing that we’ve done here is making sure you’ve got the right structures and capabilities in place, because there’s also truth, which is TV is relatively easy to get right. Relatively. It’s of course not every TV ad is brilliant, but digital communications is fraught with pitfalls. And again, 10 years ago, I think there was a lot of money just simply wasted in that. So there’s no option, and there’s no shortcut for putting in place the capabilities to ensure against that. So things like media sufficiency guidelines and making sure that your biggest brands are supported first, just simple basics, but through to creative effects. We use creative effects to ensure we’ve got creative hygiene across all of our digital media, setting up content studios to ensure that we can develop the multiplicity of assets that are needed, but with the quality and at the appropriate cost. So driving that, and then also creator strategy, making sure we help brands work with the right creators, that we can entrust our brands to. So there’s a whole new piece of sort of more tech and capability that has to be added on top. No shortcut. And we’ve been very deliberate about building that up here. And then I guess the key trick still comes back to choicefulness, which is most key, focusing behind those and back to executional excellence, because again, we have to earn that time with consumers.
Paul – 00:14:09:
Thank you. That’s really insightful. And I do think from all the marketers that I talk to, those that prioritized investing in different types of capabilities some while back and are now in their second or third iteration of optimizing that, are in a much, much stronger place. And I’d imagine at times that can be challenging because you’re having to invest in building capability without being able to completely tell the business exactly what’s going to drive. But it sounds like you guys have got buy-in for that and invest and grow and develop those capabilities. And that does give you that regional and global scale, doesn’t it?
Maureen – 00:14:42:
Absolutely. It’s key.
Paul – 00:14:43:
You spend a lot of time focused obviously, on the creativity piece, the sustainability piece, which is obviously core in a business like yours that’s producing and manufacturing constantly. How does that fit into the planning process and how you think about engaging with consumers?
Maureen – 00:14:59:
Great question. So yeah, so this is the first time in my life of not sitting on a brand, delivering the marketing, driving the growth. So it’s a new role for me, but it’s brilliant because, and I’m two and a half years into my journey at Nestlé, it’s the world’s biggest food & bev. We’ve got 31 billionaire brands, we’ve got a billion Swiss francs plus brands, so amazing brands. And then we stretch across all life stages of infant nutrition, all the way through coffee, pet care, food, et cetera, and geographic spread. So I sit there going, how can I have an impact and how can I drive? So yes, indeed, there are two areas. I’ll talk to creativity first, maybe. We are on a mission to drive up the quality of our creative execution. And the most important thing we’ve done is we have 100% hardwired that to the fact that it is business critical. It is not a nice to have. We know that after media sufficiency, creativity is the second biggest driver of marketing ROI. And so to drive that, we have set a creative scale. So we have a common language. We’ve set a goal, which is about actually can, because we need to push for some big breakthrough pieces to begin to shift and to move forwards. We’ve done capability building in critical areas. We’ve developed a creative council, selected some of the strongest marketers in the company. We bring our chief creative officers in and we look at the best of Nestlé and we discuss what does it take to get it to best in industry. And then we start feeding it out and we’re feeding the machine and we’re driving progress. Sometimes I’d love to do the work as well, but I sit there and I see the impact we can have. So that’s been a lot of fun.
Paul – 00:16:31:
I think that is phenomenal because arguably in quite a lot of organization, creativity is expected, but it’s not necessarily hothoused. Whereas it feels like you’ve made some very intentional decisions and created some intentional structure and almost governance around really ensuring that the creativity can occur and is encouraged. Because if people don’t have the time and they’re not rewarded, if that doesn’t link up, then creativity can just sometimes be this small C word where it’s like, yeah, of course we’ve got a bit of creativity, but it’s not the same as cut through really differentiating work.
Maureen – 00:17:06:
Yeah, I agree. And just back to one thing we talked about earlier, which was you’ve got to earn the consumers’ attention. And so what is going to stand out today is unlikely to look like the pretty rational work that I was doing 20-plus years ago. And so you’ve got to create an environment which is encouraging a bit of risk, which is rewarding it, discussing, driving against it. We’re on a journey. That’s what we’ve been learning, but we are seeing progress. So that keeps us going.
Paul – 00:17:33:
And Mo, what about from the sustainability perspective? I know that’s a core focus for you and for Nestlé too.
Maureen – 00:17:39:
Yes. So sustainability is a huge focus for us. We believe in advancing regenerative food systems at scale, and we’ve got very ambitious targets that we go after when it comes to all of our ESG commitments. But when it comes to valorizing that through our brands, it’s the same advice that we give, which is you’ve got to do the work and you’ve got to deliver against the objectives we have, but then on communicating, you’re choiceful and you do it with creative excellence where it makes a difference, where consumers care, where it’s going to move them down the funnel to purchase.
Paul – 00:18:12:
Now, that’s really helpful. Thank you. And the other thing I was thinking was, is it just in your supply chain with the manufacturing that you’re focused on sustainability, or do you also look at the comms and the content output as well?
Maureen – 00:18:24:
Yes, we look at both. The impact in our supply chain is obviously the biggest, so that is our priority. But we are increasingly looking at the impact of our marketing activities. One of the things that we do is that we’re very deliberate about showing consumers using behaviors which are good for the planet, because it may be subliminal, but it’s driving better choices. We ran a wonderful campaign, I remember, in Mexico, all about kids teaching their parents and their grandparents about how to recycle, etc. So we believe that brands can drive consumers towards making better choices, also through how we make that easy for them and how we communicate it. And increasingly, yes, we’re looking at the production of our media and in our buying of media, what needs to happen.
Paul – 00:19:09:
No, I’m definitely seeing, there’ve obviously been some hero brands that have made a focus on that. Diageo, I think, is one that stands out. I think you guys have obviously done a lot of that. And I think it needed that to just make sure that people are thinking about whether it’s the impact of advertising or also what’s coming, the impact of AI, right? Because the unfortunate thing about AI is it takes a lot of servers and creates a lot of heat. So that is going to be problematic going forward. It’s like, oh, well, lots of things are automated. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better for the planet.
Maureen – 00:19:38:
Yeah, I agree. Well said.
Paul – 00:19:40:
So as a strategist, Mo, and I’ve heard you allude to this already, I guess one of your jobs is obviously not just to think about what are the things that we should do, but what are the things that we should ignore and what are the things that we don’t need to leave? Because there’s a shiny new thing. If it’s not a new platform or a new bit of MarTech, it’s a new feature within one of those that suddenly gets somebody’s attention. How do you work with your Center of Excellence and team to prioritize where to put emphasis?
Maureen – 00:20:08:
I think it’s about seeing, again, starting with growth, what’s it going to take to drive growth and how is the landscape evolving and how does that impact the drivers of growth? If I think about where we are putting focus, the whole area of data, for example, is very important. It’s not led by me. We’ve got a team in group marketing here who are driving against that. But as we look into the curricular future, how do we continue to serve consumers the level of personalization that they’re going to expect and want to have? And so we’re driving, for example, against zero and first party data acquisition. But we do that also on where we can meaningfully provide service to consumers and utility to that through platforms. So that’s one area, for example. So zero party data is important to us. That’s whenever consumers are sharing their data with us because they want a more personalized service, etc. The key thing we need to do there was first of all work out where can we meaningfully serve consumers? And there’s three journeys within Nestlé where the consumer is really data hungry and through our brands we can best serve them. That’s the journey of becoming a parent. And we’ve got a lot of infant nutrition brands that serve in that space. The journey of becoming a pet parent where our Purina pet care business obviously plays a big role. And then the last one is in the whole area of feeding my family and the nutritional advice we can give, the recipes we can bring. And also through that, how we can help nudge consumers towards, and we’re balanced diet, a key part of what we do to make sure that we are giving back. And so we deliver those services and that zero and first party data is what enables us to provide more personalized advertising as well. And of course, though it’s critical, all of that is underpinned with really rigorous privacy and data policies, which we’re constantly making sure are strong and are leading in the industry.
Paul – 00:22:01:
And it sounds like the zero party data is in service of developing more meaningful. Experiences with consumers, not just for the sake of collecting data, right?
Maureen – 00:22:11:
Exactly. And again, the consumer is smart. They’re only going to spend time with us if we’re actually, you’ve got to earn that right. And it’s a time that often as brands, you’re sitting there going, how can I have an impact? And my goodness, we can have an impact by being alongside them at these critical points. And so it drives long term brand affinity as well, which of course is critical to overall marketing.
Paul – 00:22:32:
Right. No, that’s really clear. Anchored very clearly to a strategy. And as you say, where it makes most sense to serve. From strategy and deciding which new things to test and experiment with, how does Nestlé or how do you with your team think about encouraging innovation? Because it’s a very easy thing to talk about, but actually creating consistent innovation that follows through to actual genuine experiments that have learnings that are then scalable is really hard. I run our global innovation and AI kind of steer co and guild. And sometimes I underestimate the amount of work involved to get these things over the line and the engagement that you need to have with people. So in your role, I’m sure innovation is obviously a core part of it.
Maureen – 00:23:13:
Yeah.
Paul – 00:23:14:
What’s your philosophy on innovation?
Maureen – 00:23:16:
So I am a big believer in the meaningfully different framework. So this is Camtar have been pushing that, but it’s simple, but it’s so true. Because if you’re going to be meaningful, it’s about consumer obsession and being rooted in a deep consumer insight. So you’re really meeting a real need. And then different is doing it differently versus any of your competition in the market and doing it in a way in which only your brand can deliver. So we’re applying that as a key lens on any innovation. The incredible thing about food and beverage is it’s very fast changing, actually, because it’s the kind of thing people talk about. So it’s on social platforms. Again, people are information-hungry. So it tends to drive a very fast pace of trends and changes. So you’ve got to be very close to that, identify the trends, identify where we’ve got the innovation platforms and where it can fit with our brands, and then focus on that and drive against it. I am a big believer in our brands carrying the innovation because that’s how our billionaire plus brands remain relevant to consumers. And one example we currently have is we’re now scaling Nescafé expressive concentrates. So this is then how you can edit cool coffee at home without the mess. So it’s a very natural big extension that we’re doing because one in three cups consumed outside the house is now cooled. So it’s a big area for us to live into.
Paul – 00:24:39:
Interesting. Is there that many? One in three? Wow.
Maureen – 00:24:41:
Yeah, one in three. And especially Gen Z.
Paul – 00:24:44:
Yeah, right.
Maureen – 00:24:45:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul – 00:24:46:
And I’m sure certain geographies that have slightly better weather, it’s even higher.
Maureen – 00:24:49:
Yes, it is. Exactly.
Paul – 00:24:50:
And on your point about meaningful difference, how do you go about measuring that it’s had a meaningful difference? Because that’s not always going to come through in pure NSV, for instance.
Maureen – 00:25:03:
Yeah, so we look for it in concept tests, first of all. So we’ve done a correlation looking at trial potential and difference, which are two measures you can pick up with Ipsos or Basis. And we’re seeing a clear correlation to when we have lower difference, we have lower trial purchasing time. So we start the process out with it, and we start the process out actually with asking the basic questions. So we try to bake it in throughout. It also comes through, obviously, into execution, because you can have a concept that you can execute in a very me-too way against that. So again, we’re pulling out difference as a key element across many of our research fundamentals.
Paul – 00:25:42:
That makes a lot of sense. The greater differentiation is, the more likely it is to encourage some kind of action. It just makes sense. But I think you’re right. It’s not necessarily always thought about like that or followed through in all marketing. So I think that’s a great little nugget there. So we touched very briefly on the GenAI piece and we’ve talked about innovation. We’ve talked about deciding what to put bets behind. How do you think the role of strategy changes with GenAI? I mean, there’s lots of talk about, well, today the core use cases are heavily content of all different types, whether it’s content personalization or content automation or copywriting. And then there’s some, I think, that is starting to emerge in customer service and some that is very nascent in the finding new insights. But I think the finding new insights is probably still quite immature. So just fascinated about how you as a strategist that has grown up with the craft of strategy is thinking about with your teams and what you do, how does it, that word that everyone uses, augment or act as a companion alongside what you’re doing?
Maureen – 00:26:44:
Yeah, I think it will be exactly that. I think it’s going to take the speed with which we get from A to B to warp speed because of the access to the insights, the speed with which we can prototype, the speed with which we can generate multiple assets, et cetera. And frankly, if we’re not on top of that, we lose competitivity. So that’s critically important. I was in Palo Alto with one of our big platforms, and they were presenting some of what GenAI capabilities will do in the world of creating content. And I just sat there watching it. And it was just this dawning realization that it will generate a lot of very generic advertising and the barriers to creating that advertising have just gone way down. So anyone can now create that because the machine does it for you. And the only path through I see for any of us in that is strategy. So I 100% agree with you. I think, if anything, the value of strategy becomes even higher in a world of generative AI. It will be accentuated and sped up because of that impact, but then also into execution. There’s only so far that generative AI, I think, can get us in terms of execution and some of the creative breakthrough. It might get better, but I believe that the true creative breakthrough will still only come with humans. So it’s a companion. It doesn’t replace, but we have to be all over it. And all of us every day, even to keep up with our kids’ homework, we’re like, what did you use for this? So it’s a lot to practice every day, for all of us.
Paul – 00:28:12:
I like that, Mo. I think there’s a lot in what you just said and a few things that I’d call out in would be, firstly, the point you made about hot housing creative and having a creative council, I think really helps with the challenge you put about sameness when it comes to content or creative generation. So I think that’s a really good shout. And linked to that, I also am a big believer that if we can use AI to automate some of the, drudgery is not the right word, but the stuff that takes a long time that isn’t that high value, and let’s be honest, most people in marketing, advertising, comms don’t get excited by it. If we can automate the right things, then actually that creates more opportunity for us to lean into strategy. And I saw a report from a European business school actually just this week, where they talked about the fact that the data is showing that so far, there’s not a reduction in the number of managers needed in AI. It’s actually gone up. So the number of managers involved in AI related projects has gone up from between two and a half per cent and seven and a half per cent. Which I thought was interesting because it’s a complete contra narrative to the one that most kind of CEOs probably are talking about right now. It’s like, well, we clearly need less people. We need less managers.
Paul – 00:29:22:
The complexity is that AI can only deal with certain parts of it. And to your point about strategy, but also I guess the holistic end-to-end nature of marketing or any discipline, you can only get certain things automated or done quicker. You can’t get the entire thing done. So until you can do the entire thing, which I think is probably a step too far, as you said. Then we have to work out how it fits in alongside the people and how it changes the process rather than how it just rips out entire departments. I think.
Maureen – 00:29:52:
I agree. And we have to learn then how to leverage that as we go through. So yeah.
Paul – 00:29:55:
So I’m going to change tack a little bit, Mo, and ask you, as we think about a lot of what we talked about, clearly that rise of data, new platforms, the importance of retaining kind of creativity, the long and short of it, AI. Marketing has a very broad remit these days. And I think you’re right that the marketing organizations that prioritize strategy and how marketing drives growth are winning and will continue to win. If you were looking forward, let’s say a few years’ time, what do you think the main attributes of tomorrow’s CMO or senior marketing will need to be in this new world that’s emerging?
Maureen – 00:30:31:
Curiosity is going to remain key because we must master the tools. 90% of humans think that the world is evolving too fast. I’m sure it’s 100% of marketers. It is dizzying, but there’s no option. We will have to understand these tools and bring them in because if you don’t, we’re going to be losing competitiveness, et cetera. But it’s going to be that Curiosity with choicefulness. Then it’s the ability to be able to focus and get your organization. You mentioned headcount going up. We’re not an environment that can tolerate that. So the same headcount needs to be accelerated by the automation, but still focus on what’s critically important. And so I think the CMO will be playing a critical role at driving the choicefulness that they’re going to get his or her organization focused on. So those two things.
Paul – 00:31:19:
Great, great insight. And I think that choicefulness theme has come back several times in this. And I think as things change so fast, you need to invest in new capabilities and hire different types of skills into the organizations. But as you say, most organizations, it’s not like margins are necessarily going up. So therefore you have to think about, well, if I need this, what can I potentially sacrifice in order to get there? So I think often when businesses are talking about finding efficiencies or talking about growth per se, actually, and I know this happened in our organization, you focus on cutting costs in other places, but as much you need to make sure you’re focused on, well, where are we actually investing? And one often is giving the fuel to do the other. So actually growth is not quite as straightforward as I think we all like to think. It was like, well, we just throw some money over here and it generates growth. You have to organically find the fuel to actually invest in growth.
Maureen – 00:32:15:
100%. And something we’re currently looking at a brand-building framework. And one of the teams we’re working with talked about the importance of doing a bonfire every few years to get rid of the stuff, which is now less important. So your teams can focus on what is critically important. And it’s tough to do that because it’s tempting to keep it all there and to have it all available. But again, we need to focus marketers on what it takes to drive growth. And that involves tough choices.
Paul – 00:32:42:
I really like that. I might have to borrow that, the bonfire.
Maureen – 00:32:46:
It didn’t come from me. I’ll give you the source later.
Paul – 00:32:48:
No, no, no. It’s a good insight because human behaviour is, in a team, you carry on doing what you think you’re meant to be doing, and then people start putting new work on top of you. And then I think what it creates is too, not enough space to think on the important things to your point. But what it also creates is burnout because people are actually being asked to do 120, 130%. And I see that having run agency groups. I see that unfortunate trend quite often exists in the service sector, in the agency-consultancy world, where there isn’t really a thought about if we’re going to ask people to suddenly start investing a third of their time in learning how to partner with GenAI, where are they going to find that third of their time? How do we actually enable them to actually find the time to invest in those new things? And they’re slightly uncomfortable, unpopular conversations to be had, but they’re pretty essential to be had. So I think the bonfire thing is a really great insight.
Paul – 00:33:40:
So my last question, Mo, and I ask this to all our guests, is listening to you and having tracked your career across P&G, GSK, Nestlé, a lot of people will think, well, you’ve got it sorted, marketing strategy top to bottom. But I’m sure that there are areas either personally you’re working on or things you’re trying to learn to keep up with the marketing acceleration. So would you mind just sharing with us some thoughts on that before we go?
Maureen – 00:34:04:
Yes, absolutely. The two areas that I keep coming back to is actually the two I just talked about, curiosity and choicefulness. So curiosity, back to what you said, your day’s not endless. I’ve got three teenagers at home. You’ve got to choose where you spend your time or where you focus. So how can you create the means to remain linked to everything that’s happening and fully abreast of it? And one thing I’ve started to do, one is obviously my teenagers are a great source because of the generation they’re a part of. But then the other is I actually ask the agencies to do a culture dip. Every three months, every six months, come and talk and tell me because I don’t get the time to necessarily consume all the media that I should be consuming. Tell me what’s happening. Tell me what’s hot. What do I need to know about? So I do that to try to help to compensate for that fact, which is we’ve all got limited bandwidth. So that’s one thing I do. And I’m now doing that regularly. And then on choicefulness, I simply ask myself that question every day. And I get my team to ask the question because, again, we’re sitting in the center. And the last thing I want to do is be a part of the problem, which is overloading our marketers who have to drive growth. I want us to be the people who are pointing them the way to drive the growth they need to do by making some of the choices for them on what is most critically important. So we just practice it every day because, again, at the end of the day, you’ve got to bring the organization along and you’ve got to drive the choice.
Paul – 00:35:28:
That’s great. Just like any other muscle, unless you exercise it regularly, you don’t get that good at being choiceful. You just carry on being busy to go back to your kind of reset. Look, I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, Mo. You’ve taken us on a whistle-stop tour of how strategy is changing, but not changing. It’s all new, but there are also some kind of foundational things that haven’t changed. And I like that other point you just made about the culture dip or making time to bring the outside in. I often talk about the marketers that I think are the best, are the ones that have a confident vulnerability to ask for others to bring knowledge or insight to them, because we cannot possibly all keep up with all of the change and the MarTech and the GenAI and the content platforms and all the platform changes. It’s just an impossibility for anyone to keep up with. So I like your advice about both being choiceful, but also being open-minded to be curious that anybody can bring perspective to you, because I think in a strategy role, you’re right. You’re only as good as what you know and how you’re keeping up with what’s going on in the market. So all that remains really, Mo, is for me to thank you for your time. I really enjoyed the conversation. I hope you have.
Maureen – 00:36:36:
Likewise. Thank you so much, Paul. It’s been my pleasure.
Paul – 00:36:38:
Thank you so much. And that’s a wrap for this episode of the Time For A Reset Marketing Podcast: Insights from Global Brand Marketers, brought to you by CvE Marketing Consultancy. I’ve been your host, Paul Frampton-Calero, and I hope the insights shared today will help you reset and refine your strategies for successful brand transformation. We’d love to hear from you. If you’re enjoying Time For A Reset, please do leave us a comment or a review on your preferred platform and subscribe to be the first to know when a new episode drops. See you next time as I chat with another senior marketing leader. See you soon. Bye.
