Tune in to Time for A Reset
Reinaldo – 00:00:01:
In marketing, this is all about ideas. This is all about innovation. And your factory is your people. You know, it is your talent. So to be able to understand the next generation, how different they are, and that sometimes they will not be a team for the long term, that they are creating a common goal and stay three years. But you want to attract the best talent.
Paul – 00:00:27:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:00:28:
And you want to be able to provide a tool for them to be at their fullest potential.
Paul – 00:00:35:
Welcome to the Time For A Reset Marketing Podcast: Insights From Global Brand Marketers, brought to you by CvE-Marketing Consultancy. I’m your host, Paul Frampton-Calero, and in each episode, I dive deep into the minds of senior marketing leaders from around the world. Join me as we explore what they want to hit reset on an ever-changing landscape and uncover strategies that drive successful brand transformation. Today I’m delighted to be joined by Reinaldo Padua, who joins us from Beliv, where he is Chief Brand Officer. As you know, we’ve been putting quite a focus on the CPG area and retail of late, so delighted to have Reinaldo here because he has a wealth of CPG experience, having worked at Coke, P&G, Kraft, amongst others, and now leads the brand side of Beliv, which you may know as delivering lots of different Latin drinks across the world. So, Reinaldo, wonderful to have you here.
Reinaldo – 00:01:33:
Awesome. Thank you very much, Paul, and thank you for that very generous introduction.
Paul – 00:01:38:
Now, I’m really interested to hear your view, not only because you’ve worked across multiple CPGs, but also because I understand that you started life in software computer engineering.
Reinaldo – 00:01:50:
Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, I’m trained as a systems engineer. And in my home, you know, my father was a chemical engineer. And for him you can study whatever you want, as long as it’s an engineering field. So we have…
Paul – 00:02:02:
It has to be engineering of some kind.
Reinaldo – 00:02:06:
So we have mechanical engineers, civil engineers, chemical engineers at home. I was a rebel and studied systems engineering, computer science. You know, what is interesting about this field is that I don’t want to diminish the importance and the challenge of other engineering. But in this case, you become obsolete very quickly.
Paul – 00:02:23:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:02:23:
You know, the technical knowledge that you have today, tomorrow is updated. So you have to be on the know. You have to be updated. Updating yourself very frequently.
Paul – 00:02:32:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:02:33:
It’s quite a challenge that we’re facing.
Paul – 00:02:34:
Yeah. So I’m sure we’ll come back to that because at some point we will undoubtedly talk about how AI is changing marketing. So I’m sure you’ll have an interesting perspective on that. But before we do that, if you had a big orange red button in front of you and could hit reset on something in marketing, what would you choose to reset?
Reinaldo – 00:02:52:
Well, Paul when I think about corporate ecosystems and in a way the corporate food chain above the CEO and above the board of directors, you have the investors.
Paul – 00:03:01:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:03:02:
And the investors today, they are mainly focused on what I call lagging indicators, stocks and companies, more focused on profitability, etc. And I believe there is an opportunity in CPG industry for them to look more at leading indicators. And these leading indicators are the predictors of future growth and future profitability. And when you look at them, when you look at how companies create value, in essence, the return on your investment has to be higher than the cost of capital, right?
Paul – 00:03:31:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:03:32:
That’s what Tim Keller says in the evaluation book, etc. And for that to happen, you either have a very low cost and you’re very efficient and you have a very big scale or you have in the numerator of that equation, you have a strong brand that are able to command a premium in market. So I believe that if investors look more at the power of brands, because when you look at the denominator, which is the cost with third party manufacturing, a lot of companies are quickly gaining access to that benefit. But when you look at what is unique, really about those companies, I see more the brands leading the value of the company in the future. So to me, it’s a much better indicator of a future growth and value in the company. And to me, it also allows marketers to be more focused in long term investment.
Paul – 00:04:17:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:04:17:
When you look at that, you’re not so focused on short-term indicators. You’re more looking at the long-term investment and benefits of building.
Paul – 00:04:25:
Right. No, I love that. I think it’s a really great point. And there are a couple of things in what you said that struck me. One was that I think in marketing, we always have a bias towards lag rather than leading. And there are a lot of great metrics that can start to give indicators that what you’re doing is starting to work, whether it’s favorability or how people are moving towards intent. But often the digital world has forced us down this, well, are people buying within this week or this month, which takes away from the bigger the way that you exist in a consumer’s head and the stock or the ad stock, I guess, the marketing stock that you have in people’s head. So that stuck with me. And the other thing that stuck with me was I feel like investors investing in startups are more open to investing in brands and marketing. I think they realize that when it’s a startup, that plays a pivotal role, but more established businesses, big shareholders are somewhat less comfortable with it. Why do you think that is?
Reinaldo – 00:05:25:
Well, I think it’s a combination of appetite for risk and return. And probably, a good investor will have a balance of them, will have a balance of what is called big to bigger and new to big companies. Actually, it’s a term that was coined in the new to big book by Eric Ries. It wasn’t in that book, but it’s a different [inaudible]. You can believe that.
Paul – 00:05:44:
Yeah. Okay. We’ll do it later. Don’t worry.
Reinaldo – 00:05:46:
Yeah. So basically, those two types of companies and opportunities require a very different archetype of themes. And we’re all more used to the big to bigger growth. Traditional corporations that they have identified a clear opportunity. They have probably a brand that satisfies that need in the consumers. And they’re more in the optimization and organic growth of that opportunity. But the new to big, they’re attending new problems, new consumer opportunities. And of course, there is a lot more growth there. There is also a lot more risk in there. So to me, maybe a risk factor is what sometimes a dictating where to invest and how to.
Paul – 00:06:26:
Is the differentiator. Yeah. No, I think you’re right. Because I suppose when you’re trying to win new market share or create a new sector, you are taking risks per se. So therefore, you’re more willing to invest in the things that you think will get you there quicker. And larger corporates and shareholders tend to be somewhat more planful over longer periods of time rather than seeing opportunity in the near term.
Reinaldo – 00:06:52:
Exactly.
Paul – 00:06:52:
So what is it particularly about how brand health indicators? Maybe you could talk a little bit more specifically about what is it about that that you think is a really good indicator for future potential?
Reinaldo – 00:07:04:
Well, it’s such a good question, Paul. I mean, in general, what we call the brand power to command a premium in the market, in a very intuitive way, to me, the value of a brand is how much a brand is able to charge in the price versus a private label, okay?
Paul – 00:07:20:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:07:20:
If you have your brand at the same price of the private label, the reference private label in that chain, in that store, I mean, in reality, you don’t have a lot of value in your brand, okay?
Paul – 00:07:30:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:07:30:
The more you’re able to command that premium to really persuade consumers about the benefits, either functional or emotional, obviously. And that premium times the volume of your brand, that’s really the value of the brand. So I believe, we evaluated different ways to measure that in the industry. Basically, we ended up narrowing down to a couple of options and we went with Cantor. They have the Cantor brand guidance methodology that is very comprehensive because it really allows you to predict the ability of the brand to command a premium.
Paul – 00:08:06:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:08:06:
And also the ability of the brand to command future growth. They basically measure three buttons. They measure meaningful saliency of the brand and uniqueness of the brand. And through those things, they’re able to, you know, large database of different brands and cases. They’re able to predict that. That’s the way that we’re measuring across our different markets and different brands. And it’s helping us to really put value behind a lot of investment that takes a longer term return in the company.
Paul – 00:08:33:
To the point you just made that it’s helping you to win hearts and minds to invest in these areas. Do you find that the board are more open to listening to a brand story when they see that quantifiable predictivity about how it’s going to return to the bottom line?
Reinaldo – 00:08:49:
Yes, they do. As long as you combine the lagging indicators with the leading indicators, right?
Paul – 00:08:56:
Okay. That makes sense.
Reinaldo – 00:08:58:
As long as you are able to make that correlation between, okay, I’m going to be investing in this brand for a period.
Paul – 00:09:05:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:09:05:
At the beginning, we will not really see much of a jump in terms of earnings, but you will see these indicators.
Paul – 00:09:13:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:09:14:
BPO you will see indicators around the equity of the brand, the salience of the brand starting to move up. And then eventually that will result in those volumes and gains. When you do that and you create that case and you create the confidence in the board about this it really helps.
Paul – 00:09:28:
Okay.
Reinaldo – 00:09:38:
In our case, it also helps our private company. So there is more appetite for longer term return. There is more patience.
Paul – 00:09:38:
Yes, investment, yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:09:39:
You know, public companies or, you know, it’s… But to me, that’s the key. And the only way, you know, for me to be able to…
Paul – 00:09:45:
Right. And I imagine part of it, Reinaldo, is also encouraging those that you’re pitching to at the board and the CFO to hold their nerve and only look at this at certain intervals. You can’t look at this metric every week. And there are some marketing metrics which brands, because of digital and performance marketing, have become obsessive about looking at things weekly, sometimes even daily. Whereas the metrics you’re talking about are clearly, as you said, longer term metrics about future long term health. So how do you have the conversation around how regularly that you should get engagement to look at these metrics?
Reinaldo – 00:10:22:
Yeah, it’s a great point because that’s our main challenge every day. And you talk about CFOs and all different stakeholders in the company.
Paul – 00:10:30:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:10:30:
Of course, what we measure more often is action indicators. You have to be with the different levers in the brand that will result in the leading indicators. So action around digital marketing, the engagement of the brand, of the content that you have out there, the repeat purchase in certain specific channels. Maybe not in the broader channels, but more specific channels. And you start then to see those action indicators, also offline indicators like a sampling, like number of contacts of your consumers in different channels and different venues. And that, we know, will lead to those leading indicators that maybe are more a monthly or trimestral indicator. And then they will lead into a longer term one, like a volume market, etc.
Paul – 00:11:15:
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And obviously, like CPG marketing, it’s gone through lots of evolution probably, during the time that you’ve worked in CPG. But it feels like in the last five years, there’s been a significant shift and there’s a lot more appetite for using data differently. There’s still a big belief in f mental availability and saliency and the how brands grow theory of the world. But there’s also a recognition that if you can get better data from retailers and you can get better behavioral data and first or zero party data, that you can start to optimize where you put your investment. So I guess with that backdrop, my question to you is, how has brand strategy changed since the days when you first joined brand management?
Reinaldo – 00:12:01:
From the days of Mad Men to today, what I think is main change has been around the expectations from different players. When you look at consumers. Consumers are expecting today to have the same experience they have with Amazon, with every single brand they interact with. An analogy is the old days when you were called a technical call center, you will have to repeat your information and your story to every single person you will talk to. You will be transferred around the call center many times. And it was not a good experience. Today you call and you’re expecting them to know your information, to know your problem and be direct and quickly solve your issue, right?
Paul – 00:12:34:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:12:35:
So the same way consumers are expecting that today. The consumer, they don’t want to answer questionnaires or reactive research. They want you to know, to read the traces, the little traces they leave behind and be able to use that data and really come up with solutions that they are needing. That sometimes they don’t know exactly the solution, but you’re able to know that with the right technology.
Paul – 00:12:57:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:12:58:
So that has been a huge change because the way that you do research, you do insights, it’s completely different now.
Paul – 00:13:05:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:13:05:
It’s more about reading that data. With AI now, it’s been able to come up with better, faster solutions and ideas to solve that. But also in the way you interact with them. Consumers are expecting to be part of the creation of brands and the solutions. They’re no longer just in a one way communication. That it’s more a dialogue. It’s a constant dialogue with consumers.
Paul – 00:13:26:
Dark art.
Reinaldo – 00:13:27:
I will say the other one is management expectations. Investors are a lot more sophisticated today. You know, marketing is no longer this dark art that a lot of me’s and trust me and it will work. They’re expecting science. They’re expecting you to prove that your investment will provide a return.
Paul – 00:13:46:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:13:47:
And that’s all this discussion about how you define lead indicators versus lagging indicators. What is the clear connection among them? Again, with the way that you invest in Amazon today, you can clearly see the return on investment. You can see what is working, what is not working immediately. That expectation is the same with every single touchpoint that you have, every single investment that you have with consumers. So that expectation is completely different. I would say the other one is expectation with your team. Working with millennials and audiences is a very different story.
Paul – 00:14:17:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:14:18:
You need to keep them motivated all the time. It’s like you are working with a bunch of free agents, okay? And they want to feel a purpose. They want to be engaged. They want to develop their career. They’re very ambitious.
Paul – 00:14:31:
Make a difference. Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:14:33:
Yeah. I spend a lot of time really, you know, nurturing my team, really talking to them, really making sure that there is a connection between their passions and what we’re doing. So it is different. I don’t know if we were in the old days more patient or more obedient or what was it, the culture there, but expectation now is there. So I would say those three things have changed a lot. And that has definitely transformed the way that we do marketing today.
Paul – 00:14:56:
Yeah, no, I like the different angles that you gave there, Reinaldo. And one thing you said that really struck me, because we talk a lot about it in our business, was almost this scientific transformation of marketing. It’s obviously there’s the social science aspect, the behavioral science aspect, the data science aspect. And it strikes me that your reset is applying a scientific data-driven approach to doing brand marketing. But the role of brand marketing is still the same. It’s connecting with consumers and giving them a reason to want to interface or connect with your brand and building relationship over time so that you get it. But it’s using different tools and increasingly using, I guess, data to help shape brand strategy rather than just, as you implied a minute ago, like the odd survey or focus group where you might have eight people in a room.
Reinaldo – 00:15:48:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s exactly that. I remember former CMO of Coca-Cola, Joe Tripodi, he used to say, no longer spray and pray. It’s about really demonstrating that more laser-focused investment and return on that investment.
Paul – 00:16:03:
I find it fascinating when I talk to my team that you tend to get extremes in this industry. There’s people that it’s all about being everywhere, mental availability, saliency still, versus it’s all about personalization. And I think the reality is you need to have a balance between those two different schools and having complete extremes. I don’t know what you think about this, but complete extremes. If everything was personalized and it was just targeting people in a barrel versus thinking more broadly about where your new audiences are going to come from and your category is going to come from, then there’s a point at which you’re going to stop growing. But equally, spending so much money, mass reach, mass advertising can arguably be seen as wasteful from shareholders. So you’ve got to find that balance, haven’t you?
Reinaldo – 00:16:47:
Absolutely. We are in the middle of that transition. Our generation of marketers are exactly in the middle of that. And in some brands, we still have to do the massive approach. But more and more that expectation that we apply the data-driven personalization approach more the new to big approach to every single opportunity and branding market.
Paul – 00:17:08:
I think you’re right. It is a transition, but it strikes me that it’s also, there are certain principles that stay true in marketing. It’s just the tools change, as you said, like AI brings in new ways of finding insight, digital footprint gives you different insights, but the principles of marketing have never really entirely changed. Just the mediums, the way consumers expect, as you said earlier, what they get and the tools are different. So therefore, we need to adapt the way that we deliver it, but the principles often stay similar, don’t they?
Reinaldo – 00:17:41:
That’s correct. You still have your 4P’s and your 3C’s and all that and be unique and relevant still the name of the game, but how you do it, what is very different today.
Paul – 00:17:52:
Yes, that’s a good way of putting it, the how. One thing I noticed when I was researching, Reinaldo is that when you were at Coke, I believe you did quite a lot of work to ensure that Coke was connecting with the Hispanic population. And I often think that marketers are after growth. And we talk a lot about inclusivity, but arguably we under-invest in certain demographics, whether it’s Hispanic, Latin, whether it’s Black. And you look at where money goes and because a lot of the industry tends to look quite similar, we tend to invest into places that also look quite similar. So I’m fascinated to hear a little bit about what that journey was like at Coke.
Reinaldo – 00:18:30:
Yeah, really interesting question. What I will say is that probably Coke, because it’s a very global brand, understands the differences and the similarities among different consumers from different cultures. And the same applies to different cultures within the US. So at that time, the big different there is that Coca-Cola understood the importance when talking to marketing to Hispanic consumers, the importance of what they call the depth of that marketing, but also the breadth of that marketing. And so when you talk about the depth, is that you look at Hispanic consumers and they’re not all the same.
Paul – 00:19:06:
Absolutely.
Reinaldo – 00:19:07:
They come from different countries, different generations, and that dictates the food, the sports, the passions they have. So it’s a big case of depth. I remember with Powerade®, it was a communication platform with consumers that will connect with a different culture. It was not only about playing football, soccer. It was also from the Caribbean, there’s a lot of basketball and baseball players. So we’re able to understand those differences and really connect with those consumers in a different way.
Paul – 00:19:36:
Interesting.
Reinaldo – 00:19:37:
And that actually helped Powerade to become a leading brand in the sports category in the US, in the Hispanic market before it became a leading brand in the overall mainstream market in the US.
Paul – 00:19:49:
Interesting.
Reinaldo – 00:19:50:
Because of that specific target. And in the breadth I mentioned, one thing that was very important, In Cokew , was to understand that some of the passion point that you find among Hispanic consumers are really becoming more mainstream.
Paul – 00:20:04:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:20:04:
So in the old days, for example, the FIFA World Cup used to be activated only among Hispanic consumers in the US.
Paul – 00:20:11:
That’s right.
Reinaldo – 00:20:12:
You will find that on the Hispanic supermarkets, in Univision, in certain outlets. In 2010, if you remember the South Africa FIFA World Cup, that was the first one.
Paul – 00:20:23:
Yeah, I was there. Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:20:24:
Yeah, I don’t think I know, right?
Paul – 00:20:25:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:20:26:
So that was the first one that was actually activated across the entire market. So during that time, I had to go with meeting with Walmart and Target and Kroger and different outlets and basically explain why this was the way to go, that it’s no longer a niche, you know.
Paul – 00:20:41:
Really?
Reinaldo – 00:20:42:
Soccer and FIFA World Cup is played across the US. And actually, I was surprised because what they told US is that guys, I mean, we have been waiting for you to tell US this and to really take this mainstream. And that year, the FIFA World Cup became the most activated assets for the company in the US.
Paul – 00:21:00:
Interesting.
Reinaldo – 00:21:01:
In the history of the summertime, it was activated across all the different channels.
Paul – 00:21:05:
That’s a great story.
Reinaldo – 00:21:06:
7-Eleven, all the supermarkets, all the convenience stores, many of the QSRs. So it really talks about that.
Paul – 00:21:13:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:21:14:
You know, influence, that breadth, the culture that goes much, you know, beyond global.
Paul – 00:21:21:
And as you said earlier, the importance there is of staying very close to cultural shift and changes and whether that’s interests or consumption of different content. If you don’t stay close to that, then you miss an entire audience that you’re after has shifted or is expecting something different. And I think today that’s maybe a little easier because we have more digital data to be able to identify it. But, to see that in 2010, when it feels like the soccer football development and growth in the US is fairly recent. Actually, it reminds you that it started quite a long time ago. And as it rose as a brand, you saw that opportunity to go with it early rather than wait for it to be mass. And I think that’s one of the beauties of marketing, isn’t it? You find an insight early and then you exploit that insight before everyone else does.
Reinaldo – 00:22:15:
Absolutely. Yeah. That what was exactly it is.
Paul – 00:22:19:
So we touched on AI a few times, but not really jumped into it yet. So as an engineer by education, systems engineer, I’m fascinated about how you think about AI. And I think it’s already being applied in marketing probably more than a lot of other areas. But equally, there’s still a lot of difference of opinion about how valuable it is. So how do you look at it as a brand marketer owning the brand reputation, purpose, everything within Beliv, how do you think about AI?
Reinaldo – 00:22:50:
Yeah, I think as a technology that will definitely amplify and empower everything that we do today. I look at this almost like you’re giving bionics and robotics power to people, but in their minds. So everything that we do today in terms of finding information, finding insights, processing big quantity of data in a not linear way that requires that different thinking. We will be able to accelerate that many times with AI.
Paul – 00:23:23:
Interesting.
Reinaldo – 00:23:24:
I think it will absolutely transform the way that we work in a positive way.
Paul – 00:23:29:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:23:30:
That really allows people to focus more on the exploration of ideas.
Paul – 00:23:34:
How are you thinking about encouraging your teams? You said earlier that with some of the millennial team, you have to constantly keep the work interesting and exciting. Do you preach this as an opportunity to them? Or how do you think about the risk element of people starting to throw lots of data and different things into a chatbot? How do you get that balance when you’re communicating to your team, I wonder?
Reinaldo – 00:23:56:
Yeah, I think that definitely the, just to connect to the point there, AI will help with that.
Paul – 00:24:03:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:24:03:
Yes. They do need to process a lot more information. They do partner a lot more with other areas with the data transformation, with insights to be able to really come up with more data-driven solutions. But certainly AI is helping to simplify that. We’re using a couple of pilots across the company and helping to simplify stuff like that.
Paul – 00:24:25:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:24:26:
Presentations that just take a lot of time. People, verification, PowerPoints, et cetera. Saving that time, but also summarizing large amounts of information, coming up with the key points, understanding trends.
Paul – 00:24:38:
Yes.
Reinaldo – 00:24:39:
So that’s already helping that. So they can really focus more on the creativity, on the creation of new ideas, looking for insights, spending more time in the market, spending more time with customer and clients, and really trying to unlock those ideas where you cannot use technology today.
Paul – 00:24:56:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:24:56:
So definitely, and it’s going to be part of the expectations. Expectations teams really, they need to have those tools. If you go to an office and they don’t have those elements and they have to go back to Excel and to all processing tools, it’s not going to be the ideal place for them to try.
Paul – 00:25:12:
No, I agree with you. Thank you for sharing that. And is there one use case that you’ve seen in marketing beyond some of the stuff you talked about, like summarizing and automating presentations? Is there a marketing use case you’ve seen or you’re playing with that you think is really interesting?
Reinaldo – 00:25:28:
Well, right now, we started three years ago to capture learnings from our different experiments and investments and what worked, what didn’t, and what was the case and what was the data behind those situations. We are exploring a tool called VIX that help us go through all this data, all this information, and answer questions that we have based on that data. After you’re able to capture the learning, sometimes it’s hard to summarize and understand the trend. So that’s the first exploration that we have done with AI internally, with our own generative AI. So we can become smarter, but not only with all the data that is out there,,but also with the data that we know that works and it is closer to the brands, closer to the markets where we are.
Paul – 00:26:18:
Okay. Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:26:19:
And of course, there is a lot of application that we are exploring in terms of content generation.
Reinaldo
We want to make sure, especially brands with low budgets, that maybe because of their size, they’re not able to carry the big agency to come up with, you know, the content. But maybe you’re able to create that content in a more efficient way and it’s still really good content.
Paul – 00:26:41:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Reinaldo – 00:26:42:
So what we’re starting to explore is that, you know, what is the quality of the content that content can really generate the behaviors and the consumer engagement that we generate with the traditional content creation. That’s a big area of exploration.
Paul – 00:26:55:
Great, that makes a lot of sense. And I love your first example, actually, because people leave and experiments from a few years ago often get forgotten because they’re in people’s heads as opposed to anywhere easily accessible. And the chatbot functionality of just being able to ask a question and go, what’s the best way that we have found to drive purchase intent in this category is a great way to democratize insight in a really fast Amazon-esque type experience.
Reinaldo – 00:27:25:
Yeah, correct.
Paul – 00:27:26:
What was the name of the company that you said you were working with, the AI tool you were working with?
Reinaldo – 00:27:30:
VIX is the application.
Paul – 00:27:32:
VIX. I’ve not heard of that one. I’m just calling it out for the listeners because I’m sure someone was trying to scribble it down to go and check it out. So I like that. It’s a good example. So I’m going to change tack a little bit as we come towards the close of the interview, Reinaldo. And we’ve talked about how CPG marketing’s evolved. We’ve talked about how it’s becoming more scientific. We’ve talked about data and how that changes and the expectation from shareholders. What do you think the attributes of tomorrow’s senior marketer will need to be to be successful at the board table? So let’s fast forward a few years. What does the CMO look like versus today?
Reinaldo – 00:28:08:
It’s a tough question because it’s a very rapidly evolving situation. So maybe what it is today will no longer be true in the future, right?
Paul – 00:28:18:
This is true. We need to have ChatGPT-4, yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:28:21:
Exactly. We have to go to that VIX and ask that.
Paul – 00:28:24:
Yeah.
Reinaldo – 00:28:25:
But I will say it’s probably connected with one of your previous questions. So what is the marketing today, right? And I think those three areas will continue to be really important in the future.
Paul – 00:28:37:
Right.
Reinaldo – 00:28:37:
First of all, the way that we interact with consumers through digital media and a CMO that is really able to understand consumers from the digital traces they leave behind. And create that and anticipate needs and see trends and patterns and behaviors through that is going to be critical. The times of, you know, consumers answering long questionnaires is over. You know, consumers are no longer in that. And really, the information and the responses are not the best ones anyway. So I think that’s a critical element, you know, really to dominate the application of that technology to understand consumers and also to come up with the best solutions, leveraging definitely AI is going to be a critical element. The second one is as much as keeping the art element, the intuition that comes with the creation of content, the ability to dominate also the financial element of the investment. And really, if we’re free to change that precept we’re discussing today, which is investors really looking more at leading indicators of brands, then the CMO will be a lot more accountable for the investment and the expenses around brand building. So I think that in that regard, CMOs have to be a lot savvier, have to be a lot savvier about the financial return on that investment and how to prove that to the customer and how to get more funding behind the brands. And the last one is around the management of the people. In marketing, this is all about ideas, this is all about Innovation. And your factories your people, your talents. So to be able to understand the next generation of how different they are. And that sometime they will not be 18 for the long term. That they are creating a come and go and say, you know 3 years, but you want to attract the best talent. And you want to be able to provide the tools for them to be at their fullest potential during that time. All that human resources science and that understanding is really critical. As much as a production engineer really understands the production line, you have to understand the people. That’s at the end of the day, what is going to create the magic.
Paul – 00:30:52:
I think that’s a wonderfully comprehensive answer, Reinaldo. And I mean, it shows how much marketers have to cover, actually. Quite often I talk to senior marketers like yourself, and I think the breadth, you used this term earlier, the breadth and depth of what a marketer has to touch these days in an organization is pretty huge. And then need to be able to understand financial commercial metrics and put it into the language of the boardroom with just a few of the right leading metrics that convert to the lag metrics as you put out right at the beginning. And that is a big ask. It’s not an impossible ask, but it is a big ask. And then you have to keep up with new technology. And, then AI comes along and changes all of the technology overnight. And, Amazon launches and suddenly consumer experience expectations, as you said, rise up. So I think you said at some point earlier, the ability to keep up and constantly adapt and stay in tune with what’s going on from a consumer and a technology perspective is critical. And, I think if there’s one criticism that I’ve often have of certain marketers, it’s that they abdicated technology to their agencies or to their digital department, or maybe even to the IT department. And now we’re going through this scientific transformation. Technology is just such an important tool to be able to do what you do in marketing. It’s not marketing, but it’s the toolkit that you need for marketing, isn’t it?
Reinaldo – 00:32:18:
Absolutely. Yeah. The whole new game. The whole new dynamic where the consumer is.
Paul – 00:32:24:
Right. So my last question is going to be that when people hear guests on this show, they always think that guests have got everything together. Reinaldo’s been in CPG industry forever and not meaning you’re old, obviously. But you started in the Mad Men era, so you gave me that nugget earlier. But you’ve got wealth of experience. You’ve worked at some of the most high profile, biggest marketers, advertisers on the planet. So people are probably thinking, well, you’ve got everything together. But I always remind everybody that we’re all a work in progress. I’d love it if you wouldn’t mind vulnerably sharing a couple of the things that you’re working on personally.
Reinaldo – 00:32:58:
Yeah, of course. You know, I mentioned those three trades about the marketer of the future. I’m working in all three of them. By any means, I’m not going to tell myself to be ready for that. So I read a lot about how to be more innovative, how to better understand technologies used by software companies that we can reapply in CPG, how it can become a lot better moving forward and understanding data.
The way that Amazon and other companies in the digital space, we can bring that more to CPG. So to me, that’s a big opportunity. And that’s something that I try to work and learn all the time. I will say that also with my team, really being closer to them.
We are in today in virtual companies, our headquarters is in Puerto Rico. But my team is across the Americas and Europe, US, in Argentina is in Central America, and Ecuador. So how you stay close to them and how you start closer to a generation that is very demanding in terms of have a purpose.
And be engaged and have an interesting job. So it’s a challenge to stay that and keep a balance in your life. It’s very challenging.
And I will say that the third one is about that balance. You know, I’m in a time in my life where my kids are starting to leave home. You know, my oldest is already in college. The second one is leaving this year. And the next one will leave soon. So I’m starting to get to the moment that how do I make sure that they are ready for life? Okay. Because you feel like maybe I didn’t give all the tools for them to be able to survive the world. And, you know, it’s funny. The other day, , my son, he’s in Boston. He’s a musician. He’s studying music there. And he came back from the summer. The three kids back at home. And I asked them, what can I teach you before leave this home and start your own life? And I was expecting something deep around life. And they told me, we love how you cook, you know. We’d like to learn how your favorite dishes. So I said, okay, that’s great. Yeah, I’ll definitely do that. And basically…
Paul – 00:35:11:
I can do that one. I can do that one.
Reinaldo – 00:35:14:
I can do that, yeah, definitely. I spend a whole afternoon with them, teaching a pasta sauce that they love, that I always make. It’s a Bolognese sauce. And also teaching them about certain Venezuelan dishes, typical Venezuelan dishes that they love.
Paul – 00:35:29:
Lovely.
Reinaldo – 00:35:30:
Where my wife and I are originally from.
Paul – 00:35:32:
Amazing.
Reinaldo – 00:35:33:
And, you know, it’s those simple things, but sometimes, you think too hard about the things, and it’s really a simple thing that really makes the difference.
Paul – 00:35:42:
Well said. Now I feel like I have to ask you, which are better, Venezuelan or Colombian are aerpas? I think I know what your answer is going to be.
Reinaldo – 00:35:52:
Yeah, I enjoy both of them. I can tell you that. You know, you have to try both yourself and give me an independent opinion.
Paul – 00:35:58:
Yeah, I can say that I enjoy both too, for sure.
Reinaldo – 00:36:01:
Yeah, I’m sure that you have commitment there with your family, with your wife. You have to try it.
Paul – 00:36:07:
Yeah, no. Well, my favorite is that arepa de huevowith the egg in the coast. Not very healthy, but it’s like a whole meal.
Reinaldo – 00:36:16:
Yeah, that’s it[inaudible]
Paul – 00:36:18:
Exactly. Reinaldo, I love the conversation we’ve had. And I think it’s quite fitting that we’ve taken it back to people ultimately and people and connections and experiences, which is the beauty of what marketing is about. And I really enjoyed our conversation. And you’re the first person to talk about that re-looking at brand success from the brand health metrics. So I really enjoyed that perspective and loved the way that you talked about how CPGs are developing and transitioning to a different type of model. So all that really remains is for me to say thank you for this wonderful conversation.
Reinaldo – 00:36:55:
It is. You have everything there.
Paul – 00:37:03:
And that’s a wrap for this episode of the Time For A Reset Marketing Podcast: Insights From Global Brand Marketeers, brought to you by CvE Marketing Consultancy. I’ve been your host, Paul Frampton-Calero, and I hope the insights shared today will help you reset and refine your strategies for successful brand transformation. We’d love to hear from you. If you’re enjoying Time For A Reset, please do leave us a comment or a review on your preferred platform and subscribe to be the first to know when a new episode drops. See you next time as I chat with another senior marketing leader. See you soon. Bye!
