Podcast Transcript – Episode with Jason Carter from Reckitt

Tune in to Time for A Reset

Paul Frampton – 00:00:03: Welcome to the Time for a Reset podcast, the podcast where I, Paul Frampton, interview senior marketers on the big issues of the day and the thing that they want to see reset with an ever-changing landscape. Welcome back to another episode of Time for a Reset. This morning, I’m delighted to be joined by Jason Carter. Jason started his career on the sales side at ITV and then spent a good part of his career in the agency world, most latterly at IPG, but also he spent some time at Publicis. He ran and led one of the digital offerings between IPG Mediabrands, which was the performance digital agency Reprise. Most recently, Jason joined, in 2021, Reckitt to lead global transformation. So Jason undoubtedly brings an interesting purview across different parts of the business so welcome, Jason.

Jason Carter – 00:00:53: Thank you, Paul. Great to be here.

Paul Frampton – 00:00:55: Great to have you. So the first question we will start with is what you’d like to hit reset on, but maybe prefacing that, I’d love to understand, given your history, what attracted you to Reckitt in the first place, and then kind of with that purview that you have, what you would probably hit reset on? 

Jason Carter – 00:01:11: Yeah, so what attracted me to Reckitt? I think it was probably more of a seduction than an immediate attraction. So I kind of fell into it. And after my agency world, which you introduced there, Paul,  and I loved my agency life, I spent some time consulting. I was consulting for a number of tech companies, FMCG brands, and I had a day a week spare so,  I was sweating my contacts and I talked to someone down at Reckitt. I had a certain perception of Reckitt from the outside and I think a, kind of, important lesson for me was that what things are on the outside versus what they’re like on the inside are very different.  I had a perception of Reckitt. They obviously had some great brands, iconic brands, brands that your audience will know and love very well but as an agency person, my perspective was that they were very trading focused,  very good at trading, very price conscious, those kinds of things, and when I actually peered inside, it was a very different experience that I saw. So I think the timing was perfect for me because Reckitt,  they’d had a good few years. If you think about their product portfolio, the hygiene products were doing exceptionally well in COVID years during lockdown, and they were really investing in some strategic areas. So across the business, but clearly I was focusing on the kind of marketing, digital data side of marketing within it, but they were massively ramping up their offering. They were building their capabilities. There had been a recognition that they weren’t where they wanted to be with digital and I think the real catalyst was understanding what they left on the table from a kind of P&L perspective. So as I peered in, long story short, I actually realised on the inside, it was a far more strategic business and ambitious business; they really wanted to get somewhere fast, but do it well, and it got me excited. So over perhaps four, five, six conversations with Reckitt, when I was initially just trying to sniff out my next consultancy project, I was seduced in. I felt I wanted to be part of it. And luckily they offered me a job. So it all kind of grew from there. But, like I said, that journey of four or five meetings was very different from what I thought it was. So it was a pleasant surprise.

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Paul Frampton – 00:03:01: Now, I know it’s always interesting to hear these stories because people don’t often talk about them, so thank you for sharing that. And as I said, you’ve obviously transversed most parts of the marketing industry and are now on the brand side. If you had a big red button in front of you, you could hit reset on something in the industry, what would that be?

Jason Carter – 00:03:16: There’s so many things Paul, it’s not really fair, as if there could be one. But, aside from my career, I’d like to do things quicker and faster and make decisions quicker. But the programmatic landscape, I would reset, I think they got off to a bad footing, something which was such a big game changer for the industry. I think it got clogged up with all the kind of transparency and bad practices and money leaking out of the system. That’s quite an obvious one. But I think the one that I would land on would be around the, kind of, creative media dynamic. So a lot of my life was spent on the media side. If I’m honest, I’m probably a bit of a frustrated creative, but I fell into media for whatever reason. And if you think about the history of my career, I’ve been in the industry for years. Back in the day when I started, there were two channels really, there may be a bit of radio, but TV and press were the dominant ones and back then I worked for publicists for an agency called Zenith, which you probably know very well. They were the first media independent. So before that, media agencies were the media team within a creative department. I remember those conversations, can you send your time buyer down to one of our meetings? We need to talk about spots and where they go. It was that kind of conversation. And Zenith broke away and created the mould, which became the blueprint for the larger groups. That model still exists,  and I think there’s lots of positives . The industry really grew up really professional, the use of data and measurement and that kind of practice about how to deploy channels, and channels together, as effectively as you can became a real science. But I think,  if I was going to reset one thing, that red button that you described, Paul, it would be to pull things back together a bit more now and it wouldn’t be the same as before. It’s almost like back to the future, but done differently where media has a seat at the table in the right way that creative can learn from media and media can learn from creative. I think there’s a huge opportunity to do that. I don’t think it’s easy, but I think it’s what clients expect and what probably drives the best performance.

Paul Frampton – 00:05:01: Great, I love that. In all of the previous 58 episodes, no one’s brought that up so that’s really interesting. It’s something that I think quite a lot about in my role at Havas, obviously went from running the media group side, but I spent the last two or three years of my life there trying to bring the media and creative side together within the village and all of the different aspects, right? It’s not just as simple, as you say, as media and creative. There’s the CRM teams, there’s the data teams, there’s the paid social, there’s content marketing, there’s a PR team. I think what’s happened over the last 10, 20 years is that there’s splintering of so many different disciplines and when digital came along, it created these new channels which are fantastic for marketers, but we have very specialist skill sets often and actually orchestrating and connecting those things together seems to be a bit of a challenge for everybody. I’m not sure anybody gets that completely right.I know you talk about full-funnel strategy and planning, so do you think anybody is actually trying to solve that in the industry? If we think about the agency groups, of course, Mr. Sorrell within WPP built a very deep and broad business but I’d argue it was never really particularly integrated. It was EBIT additive and it kept growing. I think it was proof that you can build a financial model that continues to grow, but arguably when you’ve got 10 of everything or sometimes 15 of some things, you can’t integrate them. And then you look at some of the newer groups, so obviously Sorrell set up S4Capital; it feels like the same model, but without the legacy stuff, like focusing on digital first, programmatic, the Media Monk side, the dynamic content side. And then you’ve got David Jones’ Brandtech Group, which is almost like how do you build brands through technology, whether that’s creative or media. Do you think any of them really got a real focus on building fully integrated marketing?

Jason Carter – 00:06:47: I think you’d have to ask them what their kind of motivations were and whether it was like you said, was it about driving greater profit or providing a genuinely integrated offering to their clients. Couple of things to note. First of all, if you’re starting from scratch, you’ll do things very differently. So these newer businesses have an opportunity to get things right. But I also appreciate if you’re scaling your business and scaling your various specialisms through acquisition, it’s tough, isn’t it? You’re buying businesses with different cultures, different ways of working and you buy them, obviously because they’re great businesses in their own right, but also you hope that the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts. But having acquired businesses in IPG, you realise the work only really starts when you’ve got the deal over the line. So all your focus is convincing the boards, convincing the sellers there’s a role for them in the business going forward or not, if that’s their decision. But then integration is a really, really tough thing and you really need to invest time in it. And the other thing I was going to mention was that, because of that diversity of landscape that you talked about Paul, there are so many different specialisms involved and some of them are quite complicated. You have specialisms within specialisms, obviously. How many times do you hear, oh no, they can’t do that, they’re an SEO guy, not a PPC guy, for example. But I think what agencies need to do, or consultancies, they need to recognize what they’re good at. And there’s always a, and I’ve been guilty of it myself, I can remember with a big Coca-Cola meeting once, pitching for something we just weren’t good at, we didn’t do, it wasn’t our core strength, but we had to go for it because it was Coca-Cola. And at the end of the meeting, the client said, well, it was a lovely presentation, I love the books you created, they’re really well designed and you obviously spent a lot of time on them, but you don’t really do these things, do you? It’s not your core strength. And we went, you’re right, but we couldn’t miss the opportunity to expand into that area with your brand. So I think the most important thing is you recognize what you do and what you don’t do and what you’re great at and then it requires, I believe, a very strong client who sets the rules, gets everyone to play fair, and importantly brings those businesses into their business. Do I really understand what their challenges are? Because when you’re an agency and you’re not resonating and you’re not getting traction with a client, sometimes you don’t really understand their challenges, you don’t know where they’re coming from. They’re all ears when you can solve their problem, but that’s on the client to let you in and work as an extended partner. And I know later you’ll probably talk about in-housing and it’s connected to that conversation. So if a client really wants that solution, it’s not just on the holding group to come up with a holding group solution and present it, but often it’s the clients driving that demand, but they have to be the facilitator. And often it might not be the same group, you’ll pull people in, or business in, from different areas to add strategic capability or specialist capability or whatever, but it’s down to the client to set the rules and be strong and be clear about what they want and partner with those businesses in the right way.

Paul Frampton – 00:09:26: That’s a great point. Also listening to you, it made me think about, I just seem to remember this being my daily job when I was at Havas, to think about how to move between specialism and integration. As soon as digital came along,  you always needed it before with direct marketing, but you need to prove the specialism, but linking things together is ever more challenging. I find myself often talking about who’s the right profile of individual to connect everything together? It used to be a comms strategist, but arguably there are so many different disciplines and you need to understand technology and what’s possible with technology, so is it possible for any one person to do that? But I think your point is very well made that a great client gives clarity and an overarching brief and brings and orchestrates people together. You also said, which I think is important for agency people listening, that agencies need to think more about why am I doing what I’m doing? What is this ultimately in service of? Is it in service of growing the category? Is it in service of more revenue, in more frequency of buying? Because I think often when you’re in a specialist department, you get lost in the minutiae of what you’re doing.

Jason Carter – 00:10:30: Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. I think perhaps, and maybe this is a question to you, Paul, to see if you agree. Specialists are really important because some of these areas are so complex and they require that real kind of dedicated knowledge. Specialists are really important, but how do you integrate them? And the role of the individual or team who does that integration is super, super important. So how many times have we sat in meetings where the specialist will be talking to the strategist or the planner and there’s a serious disconnect about really understanding what the other one’s talking about? It’s a real skill set where someone can extract what the specialist is saying, frame it in the right way so that that knowledge is getting embedded into the strategy. So,  if you really want to be successful on TikTok today, for example, you need to know how the platform works and that the creative you make is fit for the platform, and that’s a very easy thing to say, but you’ve got to extract that knowledge because that knowledge exists. But how do you join that up and speak the same language? I do think it’s a challenge. The other thing we were talking about the other day that just sprung to mind, but it’s the type of individuals you need. So do you remember that T-shaped individual, you’re kind of broad, but you go deep. We all came from a certain area and then we broadened out. That’s the tense of what happens. But actually you need more of a kind of V-shaped individual where they actually can go wider in more areas. And this is why things like how you skill your team up,  there’s a huge investment at Reckitt around capabilities and training, but not kind of a one-size-fits-all, so if you’re a marketer versus someone using a wider business role, how do we give you the competencies to be successful in a way that’s fit to your role? So you can ask the right questions. You don’t need to be the doer, you don’t need to be the person on these platforms, but  know what’s possible. How do you train them in a way and bring them on board so they can actually contribute? Because to be successful, you need everyone understanding the journey you’re on and playing a part and achieving that. So, difficult to do, but it starts with having the vision and the roadmap and the common understanding.

Paul Frampton – 00:12:16: I really like that. I think hearing you talk, it’s also about that curiosity and interest in not necessarily being the person that creates the TikTok, but understanding how that possibly relates to the thirty second commercial that is being put out and how a consumer may think about or experience those two things together. Because I think the thing that we always forget when we’re in marketing is ultimately, someone sees something very kind of fleetingly, they see an ad and that has either a big impact or a small impact on them. And when they see things in multiple channels, we’ve all been taught and seen lots of econometric studies that prove that it works better. So that linkage and joining things together is a constant need. I want to just reverse a bit further out. It strikes me from what you said and actually the investment that Reckitt is bringing you in to do global transformation and decide from some of the successes in the pandemic to invest in building more of a digital driven business, that marketing must be fairly influential at the board table at Reckitt. Is that fair? Do you feel like marketing has a top seat at the board table?

Jason Carter – 00:13:20: Yes, 100%. We always talk about our leadership being our biggest enabler. So if you think about the program that I oversee, it’s about designing the roadmap, the plan, making it happen, removing any barriers to making it happen. So our kind of regular connection with leadership, so we have board representation sponsoring our program and they are, like I said, our biggest enablers in that they can help remove barriers, they can ensure that the wider business is playing fair with what we need to achieve. But also the converse to that is that we’ve had to change how we position the program, how we communicate it to the business, because as marketers, we’re all guilty of, partly because we love the industry and all the rest of it, but we’re guilty of over-complicating, simplifying our story and there is a lot of complexity with it. But fundamentally what we’re trying to achieve is quite straightforward: how do we connect with potential consumers or existing consumers better to build better relationships with our brands so they really understand the brand’s purpose and meaning to drive business performance, right? That’s fundamentally why we do this. Marketing is invested into drive the business and customer relationships. So because of that, we need to position the value that we bring in a language that the business understands. And actually just to bring that to life a little bit, my boss who was involved in the program before I was hired, he said in the early days,  we’re so excited about this and I’m going to oversimplify it for the sake of conversation, but he’d be saying, well, we can do all these fantastic things, we can talk to customers one-to-one and build better relationships and drive this and drive that and use data and it didn’t really resonate,  when you’re talking to business people. He turned around and said, oh, we need to do this differently and talk in their language and the basic narrative was, okay,  you invest a lot of money in marketing, significant sums in marketing, how about if we could make that work harder for you and you could drive greater customer loyalty, drive greater return on investment, so for every pound or dollar or euro you put into your marketing, you get more sales out of the long term, people are more loyal with your brands, all those kinds of things. They said, look, that’s really interesting, now, can you show me how we do that? And then you take them on the journey. So to just pull that full circle, we can utilise our leadership as our biggest enabler, but we have to be delivering what the business needs, so it generally goes right up to the board level at Reckitt.

Paul Frampton – 00:15:23: Nice, as you were talking, you reminded me of the interview I did with Peter Markey, he talks a lot about the value of marketing internally, which I think is what you were touching on, and the importance of being able to give the commercial angle of if we do these things, it’s going to drive up our brand value or our kind of revenue or our profitability. I think too often people in the advertising side of the industry tend to get a little bit stuck with metrics that are very down the bottom rather than the metrics that ultimately drive whether a business will invest or not.

Jason Carter – 00:15:50: I totally agree with you. And you still need media metrics, they do have a role in sort of day-to-day optimization or whatever, but one of the biggest features of our program is we’ve really invested in analytics and intelligence. So a big part of our program is test-and-learn, but how do you understand if something’s working unless you have the right measurements? So we’ve created some tools to get pretty fast feedback on what’s working and what we mean by what’s working is what’s driving sales uplift or incremental net revenue. So we’re obviously tied in with sales partners or whatever. Having measurements critical to convince the board, you need to be able to say, look, we can demonstrate the value. And once you’ve demonstrated it, you’ve scaled it, how do you get that performance attributed within the P&L? So you get acknowledgement of what marketing’s doing and then the board will listen.

Paul Frampton – 00:16:33: Great point. And as part of your transformation work, Jason, what are the strategic areas that you have already invested in or are thinking about Reckitt owning more and taking more responsibility for?

Jason Carter – 00:16:44: Yeah, so this kind of ties in with in-housing, doesn’t it? And I think there’s a view in the industry, there are a lot of big clients who are in-housing everything and they don’t want to pay for external partners. They can do it cheaper or better themselves.  Our view is a bit more nuanced than that. Well, first of all, we’ve seen massive value in external partners.  We’re good at some things, we respect that an external perspective is essential. There are some things that external partners will always do better than we do. But to answer your question, there are some areas that we feel that are so strategically important that we need to own. Not to say that others don’t help us build them and contribute to them, but some areas that spring to mind are oversight of our martech stack.  You can’t do marketing today unless you have a martech strategy. If it’s fragmented or it’s out of alignment with your objectives, then you’re going to have issues to scale and do things consistently well. So martech, comms strategies, we have a fantastic comms strategy team led by a great ex-agency guy, Clay, who has brought all his knowledge from the agency world. But we partner with agencies, we use their tools. The agencies have got some awesome tools, but we do it in the Reckitt way with our IP and consistently around the globe. Audience strategy, we’ve built what we call desks, so basically hubs of best practice. And it all starts with the audience, so we bring audience strategy into the organisation. But on the other side, there are areas that we recognize that aren’t of core strength, that partners can do better, whether it’s strategic partners like a BCG, or,  they provide a great external view, or some of the very technical operational partners at the other end. So throughout our operating system, we have best-in-class partners plugged in. And it’s evolving because we’re becoming more sophisticated, our asks are changing, and so are the asks of our partners. And we’ve kind of gone full circle in the conversation, but we know when we talk about how we work with partners,  we recognize that to work with them, we’ve got to really let them in. And I don’t know in the organisation if some people actually realise they’re an external partner because they’re in-house, they’re part of the team, they’re an extension of the team.

Paul Frampton – 00:18:34: Well, the fact that you can’t describe it is a good thing, isn’t it? Because it means they’re actually so kind of infused into the business.

Jason Carter – 00:18:40: Either that or I’m inarticulate, Paul, one of the two.

Paul Frampton – 00:18:45: Absolutely not. That wasn’t what I meant. But it sounds like you have a genuine hybrid model, right? And you talked about this binary, all or nothing.  we started using a couple of years ago the phrase “right housing” because in-housing just doesn’t really describe the reality of it, and I like the direction of where you’ve gone in that own the audience overarching connected strategy, which links to the point that you brought up as reset. Own the technology and understand how that kind of works and then the measurement, they feel like the architectural bits around everything. And then as you said in your intro, there’s probably going to be better people to actually execute in very specific areas or implement technology in a very particular part of that ecosystem just because they do it all day long, right?

Jason Carter – 00:19:27: Well, creative ideation,  creative agencies play a phenomenal role. If you look at some of the work in Cannes recently, there’s some great work that comes from our creative partners. So it’s a more mature, sensible model for the complexities that we’re navigating today, Paul. 

Paul Frampton – 00:19:41: And one thing that just came to my mind as we were talking, which is that whenever we’re talking to brands about in-housing, it takes a lot of discussion.  It’s easier for you because obviously you’ve worked on the agency side. You mentioned that your comms lead has obviously come from the agency side and quite often people that are in in-house teams, in-house almost agency teams come from agency. So how do you think about culture, retaining those people in an org that is so diverse and different as Reckitt to IPG, for instance?

Jason Carter – 00:20:08: I’ll be honest, when I first joined Reckitt, it was a bit of a shock. Perhaps I felt a little bit kind of shoehorned,  I was a bit siloed at being an agency person. But first of all, you’ve got to recognize when you move client-side, you bring so much valuable experience to them. But the learning curve is phenomenal. So in agencies, we’re obsessed, aren’t we, about our brand promise and everyone’s got a positioning statement and reason for being. And the reality is that clients don’t really know what that is or care, it’s really what you can do for them. I think agency folks bring a really valuable perspective. What happens when you go into a client is that you just suddenly realise, I’m scratching the surface of what’s really important to them. So being able to get closer to the business and what the business is supposed to achieve and what our brands are trying to achieve and what their strategies are becomes super important. And as you say, you sometimes think you understand the business, but I don’t think you really do unless you’re living it day to day, and this is why this kind of hybrid model and actually having people in the office, that brings them closer to the business and what the leadership’s looking for. And if you have that, and this just comes back to that conversation around how you work with your partners, you could add more value because a lot of it that agencies are talking about is noise because it’s not addressing what the client wants or the business needs at that moment in time.

Paul Frampton – 00:21:17: Actually genuinely need. And it may be a strategy that’s been taken from another vertical category that doesn’t work in CPG because you don’t understand the nuances of CPG, right? So that best of both worlds, I guess explains why so many brands go for hybrid and right house models, because it’s very rare you can get an agency that really understands the intricacies of how CPG trade deals are done with retailers and how you think about volume and value and all of those kinds of things. I’m not saying there aren’t agency people that can do that, and there are a lot of CPG experts, but the majority are working on multiple clients and their craft is to be good at particular things. Whereas obviously inside Reckitt or any other CPG, your main raison d’être is to make sure that everything that is done is paying back to the business and understanding how that will happen.

Jason Carter – 00:22:07: I think the other thing to build on that, clearly you want to be excellent at every area that you’re marketing in, it’s also about how these things fit together. And a lot of the conversations we’re having around what is the right blend across the funnel, all that stuff, like  we respect there’s a need for specialists, but the integration of them. And a lot of that comes from understanding the data and the measurement and what works and we’re investing a lot of time in that. So, are we investing upper funnel versus lower funnel, for example, or vice versa? Now they’re the big questions the business is answering and it’s difficult, like I said, we’re a huge organisation, but the more we drive collaboration and if it’s grounded in data, it’s facts. It gives us the proof points to pull down some of those silos.

 Paul Frampton – 00:22:45: Yeah. Great. You’ve alluded to this and touched on it a little bit already, but how would you describe how your marketing operating model has changed as a result of a more data-driven, technology-enabled marketing landscape?

Jason Carter – 00:22:57: Yeah. Well, look, I’ve been there two and a half years, so I can’t take credit for a lot of this, but I’ve seen it in the last two and a half years and what I heard about before. First of all, there’s no getting away from it, if you want a marketing strategy today, you need a martech strategy. We’ve got all the critical pieces there, whether it’s GMP or a CDP, creative asset management tools, everything that all global marketers probably have so on the surface, there’s not a lot of difference. You can have all the technology in the world, but you have to put in place the standards, the ways of working, the consistency, without shoehorning everything in because there’s some things that just don’t work in some markets or in some brands. So you need that flexibility, but the more consistent approach you have to adtech, that’s critical. If I look back historically, we were probably more localised, more of a patchwork, but we have a clear perspective and roadmap, which is importantly aligned with marketing. So IT and marketing are talking, our priorities are baked in. So that’s critical. It’s having more of a global view on these things. I think what’s also changed is the degree of collaboration. So I’m thinking about some of the forums I run, our regular, we call them fancy names, but our regular status meetings. We have a broad spectrum of individuals from different functions working together, increasingly speaking a similar language, measuring in similar ways so looking at similar business indicators. That’s all changed. I think what I was also surprised about is just the pace, the pace of change. We talked about at the beginning, looking outside in, you don’t always have the same impression of an organisation, but actually change is fast. They’re ambitious. I don’t think it’s going to slow down anytime soon. So I think a lot’s changed with the operating model and the blend of the right partners that you talked about earlier, Paul, I think that’s also evolving.

Paul Frampton – 00:24:30: Really interesting. So we’re going to change tact as we approach the end of our chat, Jason. And I always like to ask, what they’re working on themselves, what piece of advice they’d give others, because I think people listening all often think, well, Jason’s got everything together, he’s got thirty years experience, he knows what he’s doing. I can’t do those things. But if you went back to when you were your younger self, what do you wish you’d learned?

Jason Carter – 00:24:55: Yeah. It was a very different world then, Paul. I think it’s far more diverse and interesting. There’s so many opportunities. The sector’s so big now, so much exciting stuff to do. And there were probably points in my career that I was kind of wasting away a little bit. I was perfectly happy, but not necessarily being challenged as much as I would have liked to have been. So my biggest recommendation, and I do it now all the time, is to ask for help, ask for support, if you’ve got any questions, if you’re curious. Because what I find as I’ve gotten older and probably more confident or whatever is there are so many great people with good experience, not necessarily because they’re older than you and they live longer, but because they’re doing things in a different area, work for a different company or a different type of business. And most people, nine times out of ten, will give you their time. Actually, they’ll be flattered that you’ve asked them and you’re reaching out as long as you’re genuine in why you’re doing it. They will give you time. And that’s how opportunities arise. So if I think about my career as I’ve matured, every opportunity I’ve had, whether it’s a promotion within an existing group or moving sideways into a different role, into a new area, it has always come from a social connection of some description or experience I had with someone before. And they’ve said, well, actually, Jason will be good for that role, he can solve my problem. So my biggest recommendation is  don’t be afraid to ask. People will genuinely give you the time. There’s a lot of very generous and interesting people in the industry. And networking sounds like a bit of a dirty word, so maybe we need to rebrand it, but connecting with people. And actually, one final thing, what that leads to is, thinking about my job at Reckitt, I was out of my comfort zone. Some of the roles I’ve done are out of my comfort zone, and it’s not always fun, but your learning curve is phenomenal. And actually, you realise more about yourself and how you respond to stressful situations, but you grow so much and prove that you’ve actually got so much experience from these other areas that other people don’t have. So that’d be my recommendation, reach out to people, reach out to connections of people who  who will give you time. And there’s some great people out there who will be great connections.

Paul Frampton – 00:26:44: Yeah, what’s the worst that can happen really? I think it’s great advice because I think when you’re younger, you just feel that you can’t because, you’re so inexperienced compared to someone, but again, if you do it authentically in the right way, and of course, you never know when you’re going to need your network, whether it’s your staff in your business or you need a new job or you need an opportunity. If you’ve never invested in it previously, then it’s not there. It’s just not there when you need it. And I think a lot of people don’t think about that.

Jason Carter – 00:27:12: Yeah. And it’s the other way around, isn’t it? When people reach out to you. So,  when I get inbound prospects or individuals who want to chat, whatever it is,  I always make time for them.  There’s fifteen minutes, half an hour. Sometimes you learn something from that yourself. So I think it’s got to go both ways. But you’re right, when you’re younger, you don’t think about that, do you? But yeah, that would be my recommendation anyway.

Paul Frampton – 00:27:30: Excellent advice, which I would absolutely second. So Jason, you’ve taken us on a really interesting whistle-stop tour from the fact that the industry could do a better job of bringing together all the constituent specialist parts and joining it up; talking about, ultimately, where Reckitt and you believe brands should own and more strategically invest in their own capabilities; how to build the right culture for that internally; and then the importance of Reckitt investing in new digital capabilities and being more data-driven, running test-and-learn, building the desks that you have globally to build that centre of excellence. And then obviously giving that last bit of advice. So I think we’ve covered a lot of ground in 35 minutes. So I’m very grateful.

Jason Carter – 00:28:09: Great to talk to you, Paul.

Paul Frampton – 00:28:11: Yeah, likewise. Thank you so much.

Jason Carter – 00:28:12: Thank you.

Paul Frampton – 00:28:14: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Time for a Reset. I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. We’ll be back talking to a senior marketer very soon. Make sure you don’t miss out on any new episodes by subscribing on Apple, Spotify, or SoundCloud.

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